PMLN/PPP performance

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by godzilla, Sep 20, 2017.

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  1. godzilla
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    mr mufti makes an appearance in that video I just posted at around 33 mins - youll like this @iho, klasra talks positively about the health department and quotes a sensible policy to increase taxes on cigarettes like everyone else in the world, to help deter addiction amongst the youth - it was mufta that stopped that, the finance ministry prevented it... he also makes fun of ik at the start of the segment, so youll love that too.
     
  2. iho
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    I don’t have any doubts at Dr Miftah’s credentials. A PHD in economics from the worlds top business school definitely knows more than cricistani experts. He is fully qualified to be US finance secretary let alone to be finance Minster of Pakistan. If Asad Umar can make fun of Nawaz then probably it’s also okay if Miftah makes fun of Imran, this is politics as usual which is obviously not something that impresses me.
     
  3. Del
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    Are you talking about any other report that this one?

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/196291-un...ther-provinces-was-based-on-2005-2013-khattak

    Because this one is out of the window already. And as for the performance, I have already shared 3 page long list of project in KPK and still waiting to see the same for Punjab. I tried to find material, but Google didnt help.
     
  4. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

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    Okay I don't think there is any point on arguing this. Unfortunately in Pakistan its hard to find independent surveys. You gave list of projects completed in KPK and I googled a list of Projects completed by Punjab. I'm being labeled as PML-N biased and you are for sure a hard core PTI supporter so it makes more sense that we rely on independent surveys and bury this topic for now unless we see one. Also the voters will have a choice to make that will be based on performance and less on political rhetorics.
     
  5. Del
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    Well you said that I am delusional and based on the independent report cards in KPK based on their governance, they're exposed. I shared the source, which clearly states that period of report was 2005-2013. Based upon which, there shouldn't be any shades of gray.

    Yes, I shared concrete evidences with tons of material to back, including progress pictures. However, from you, I only see list of unknown projects, with no concrete data.

    You were labeled as PML-N supporter because you're bent upon defending them and didnt even wanted to give credit to PTI for their work in KPK. I have openly said that I give credit to PML-N for their efforts if its corruption free. I appreciate PTI's work in KPK and due to this, if I am labeled as 'hard core PTI supporter ', then so be it.
     
  6. iho
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    I sent you the PILDAT survey from 2017 and you ignored it. Didn't you ?

    Of course you are a hard core PTI supporter else you wouldn't be getting that aggressive to their defense. Have you mentioned a single post where you have praised the current government for their work. Actually you even found ways to criticize them on adding 11k MW to the national power grid or signing the CPEC or building roads and bridges and train projects.
    Listen again - I do appreciate the work done by PTI in KPK. Police reforms, hospitals are all good stuff. What I don't agree is one sided view where you are hell bent upon discrediting all the good work the Punjab govt has done and trying to portray KPK's performance better than that of Punjab because there isn't any independent data that proves it that way. Show me an independent non politically endorsed survey and I'll shut up
     
  7. Del
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    And what did you do when I showed you the same PILDAT survey? You said, oh its older.

    Where have I praised PML-N work? In this thread, in post # 125.

    Yes, I criticize them, because shortfall has reached 6,000 to 7,000MW. For you and I its not an issue, but go and spend a day without electricity then you will realize what I am talking about. And as for CPEC, please dont try to paint that its PML-N who made it materialized. Regardless of Gov, it was bound to happen, give the fact the adequate security is provided to Chinese. And as for train project, I showed you countless times the level of corruption involved in Orange line metro project.

    I am not portray KPK's performance better than that of Punjab, what part of it you dont understand man? All I said is that I need to look at the similar data, like what I shared where about KPK. I also highlighted South Punjab issues, access of clean drinking water is the biggest, deteriorating conditions of Gov hospitals along with others. CPEC or building roads and bridges and train projects are all secondary, but if you a Gov fails to provide the basic necessities of life, then what else do you want me to say?

    And for independent survey, I havent found even a single reliable, authentic upon which I can count on. Therefore, I did a lot of research, and shared massive list of KPK projects, with progress pictures taken at different stages of the project - what other proves do you want to see? Also, I need to see the same of Punjab projects, can you provide these? Because for me, these worth more than useless surveys.
     
  8. iho
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    Shouldn't we be looking at the most latest report to see who did the best in 5 years vs looking at the 1 year Score Card. Its pretty logical . Isn't it ?



    Where have I praised PML-N work? In this thread, in post # 125.

    When did I say its non issue. My extended family lives there and I'm very well aware of it.
    Thats is why I'm saying we need independent survey

    Why do you think PILDAT 2017 survey is a useless survey ?
     
  9. godzilla
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    he has qualifications, but that does not make him fit for purpose. he was a board member of PIA in 2013 - DISASTER - head of bureau of investment - DISASTER - and is one of the chief architects of the tax amnesty schemes designed to allow black money to be repatriated to pakistan with virtually no penalty.

    so yes, he knows a lot, yes he is very well qualified in terms of academic achievements, but no, he looks totally out of his depth and as crooked as the rest of his party - its no wonder he ended up there.

    in any case, thats just an opinion. you are right thought, and its good to see you admit this press conference was just a sham political hot air drama. it had no substance.
     
  10. Del
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    Sure we should, but it also doesnt mean that you discard 1/2/3 years old results.

    I am surprise if you're well aware of circumstances but still going out of the way to support PML-N.

    As for survey, to me, the only way to have independent survey is a body which doesn't belong to Pakistan do some study, and then perform a survey.

    As I said above, I dont look into PILDAT, because such surveys are usually biased and high influential. Dont be naive, you and I, we both know how things could be twisted. If an independent international reputable company like Forbes will survey without any influence, then certainly it will be considered legit and will be acceptable to many.
     
  11. godzilla
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  12. godzilla
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    can any of the resident noonies here explain why qaid e qyun nikaqla answered his Supreme Court section 342 questions but refused to do so under oath?
     
  13. iho
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    iho Smooth Operator

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    I'm not going out of way to support PML-N. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness that by downplaying the government's accomplishment in order to present the party you support as a bringer of revolutionary changes is only an attempt to misguide the people and this is incorrect. Never ever I have mentioned that PML-N has transformed this country into Switzerland. They have definitely failed in many areas and I hope that who ever comes next will do better job. Unfortunately people are so misguided these days due to these political rhetorics that they don't even know what they are criticizing.

     
  14. Del
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    For nth time, all praise goes to them 'for all the corruption free projects they've done'. Not awareness is needed, everybody can see their white and black. People are also very well informed about their corruption too, gone are the days when people use to believe in the promises of Nawaz and Drama queen.

    That said, I am not downplaying PML-N to support IK or PTI, I have shared gazillion source, which supports the work they've done. Also, provided tons of data about ineptness and corruption of Nawaz, Drama queen and their sidekicks - whats so difficult in it to understand? I am not sure why we are going in circle over and over again.
     
  15. godzilla
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    "ISLAMABAD (92 News) – Maryam Nawaz, daughter of former prime minister, on Wednesday rejected the Joint Investigation Report (JIT), saying that the JIT report irrelevant to NAB case.

    Recording her statement in Avenfield reference, she said that the report of Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is irrelevant to the NAB reference.

    During the hearing headed by Justice Mohammad Bashir, Maryam Nawaz started to read comma and full stop during recording statement. On that Justice Bashir said in his remarks that ignore to read comma. Maryma replied that she is reading comma and full stop as per instruction given by her lawyer."

    oh my god this woman is a total and utter moron. and she is the heir to the throne???
     
  16. Del
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    And this imbecile is among the 11 most powerful women in the world, but checkout here level of intellect, as per the above statement by her. This shows that these Noora's are not only corrupt but they're stupid too.

    https://propakistani.pk/2017/12/18/maryam-nawaz-ranked-among-11-powerful-women-world/
     
  17. godzilla
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  18. iho
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    Since you are fan of kulasara, you must watch this
     
  19. godzilla
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    erm, didnt you say he was a lifafa journalist, but now he's not because hes touting your PMLN friendly line? hypocrisy much?

    and here's what I wrote at the time, so no need to quote something I already have seen - unlike you I have a balanced view already

     
  20. godzilla
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    heres what consistency looks like:

    you obviously love Malik - since you even started a thread on one of his programmes. so here is his latest programme specifically on the economy. an issue which will have far wider ranging ramifications on the common people than anything else, far far greater pain and suffering than for example getting in an electable to defend against dirty politics and blaming the receiving party, rather than the party they have spent years working in, and instead defending that party hypocritically.

    youll like to that there is some critique of the pti 100 day plan. but they decimate what the PMLN has done, the state they have taken the country to and how serious it is, how they have done it on purpose, and have taken the country to a place which it will take multiple years to recover from:

    http://videos.92newshd.tv/videogall...ion-of-pakistan-economy-27-may-2018-92newshd/
     
  21. Del
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    NAB recovers Rs15mn, expensive car owned by Ahad Cheema: sources

    LAHORE: National Accountability Bureau (NAB) Lahore Monday recovered Rs15 million and an expensive car belonging to former director general (DG) of Lahore Development Authority Ahad Cheema, sources told Geo News.

    Sources said investigating officials raided a showroom of a renowned car dealer in Lahore and seized Rs15 million, which were stashed by the former DG LDA.

    [​IMG]

    NAB officials also raided another showroom situated on Lahore's Jail Road and recovered a car worth Rs11 million belonging to Cheema, the sources said. The raids were conducted following a tip-off.

    Officials, during investigations, were said to have obtained evidence of secret communication and financial matters between Cheema and the car dealer.

    Sources said that crucial information on Cheema's laptop and cellular phone was deleted, however, the NAB recovered the deleted information.

    Cheema was initially arrested in connection with Ashiana-e-Iqbal housing scheme corruption case.

    Separately, the anti-graft body has also been investigating illegal assets owned by the ex-DG LDA.

    https://www.geo.tv/latest/197176-nab-recovers-rs15mn-expensive-car-owned-by-ahad-cheema-sources
     
  22. Del
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    56 companies’ scandal: Punjab govt tries to cheat NAB

    NAB spokesperson says govt’s attitude is non-cooperative

    LAHORE: The Punjab government is trying to dodge the National Accountability Bureau (NAB) by submitting the record of non-operational, non-existent and on-papers-only companies in the guise of 56 companies, Pakistan Today has reliably learned.

    Following the orders of Chief Justice of Pakistan (CJP) Mian Saqib Nisar, the Punjab government is bound to submit the record of 56 companies for the alleged corruption to the tune of Rs80 billion. The government has apparently assured the Supreme Court (SC) that it will provide the record of all companies to NAB as, according to it, there was no corruption in these companies and everything was crystal clear there through a self-accountability mechanism and internal audit.

    However, reliable sources said that the Punjab government submitted the record of only 39 companies to NAB and that too the initial record such as agreements. The Punjab government has set up more than 70 companies to bring good governance in the province, out of which some were non-existent and others were non-operational.

    The government gimmicked NAB by submitting the record of these non-operational companies to the anti-graft body which has worried the investigators.

    NAB Punjab spokesperson Muhammad Zeeshan confirmed that the government was reluctant to submit the record of the companies. He said that the government had admitted that there were 63 companies, out of which 56 were operational and the rest were not operational. However, he said that the government submitted the record of 39 companies and was dilly-dallying in submitting the record of 17 companies.

    “We submitted the report to the SC in the last hearing that the provincial government has not submitted the record of 17 companies. The SC ordered the government to submit the record to NAB at the earliest,” he said.

    Talking about attitude of the Punjab government, NAB spokesman said that the government’s attitude is non-cooperative.

    “The government submitted initially the demanded record but it is not cooperating in submitting any further record for more investigations,” he added.

    Talking about corruption in 56 companies, Zeeshan said that NAB had arrested Punjab Power Development Company Chief Operating Officer (CFO) Ikram Naveed on April 13 in an alleged Rs120 million scam.

    Similarly, he said that four people were arrested in Saaf Pani Company Project Bahawalpur for corruption in the installation of 116 filtration plants there. They include Chief Technical Officer (CTO) Dr Zaheer Uddin, Chief Procurement Officer (CPO) Nasir Qadir Bhaddal, Consultant Engineer Muhammad Saleem and Muhammad Masud Akhtar.

    He revealed that Anti-Corruption Establishment director general was reluctant to submit the record of some companies and has asked the NAB to get permission from Punjab chief secretary. The anti-corruption DG further made the excuse that the matter was sub-judice before the anti-corruption court, therefore, it cannot give the record to NAB.

    He said that an inquiry was initiated against him for the misuse of authority in NAB as he was bound by the law to submit the record to NAB and finally, NAB succeeded to get the record from the anti-corruption court.

    He said that corruption of hundreds of millions of rupees had taken place in these companies and further revelations will be made with the passage of time.

    https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2018/05/07/56-companies-scandal-punjab-govt-tries-to-cheat-nab/
     
  23. Del
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    Punjab Companies scandal: Dunya News acquires details of salaries paid to CEOs

    [​IMG]
    Supreme Court (SC) has taken suo motu notice of the issue.
    LAHORE (Dunya News) – A probe by investigation cell of Dunya News stated that officials of the public companies formed by Punjab government were awarded salary up to Rs2 million. Apart from salary, allowances up to Rs3 lakhs, house and vehicles were also awarded to the officials.

    CEO of National Thermal Power withdrew Rs2 million per month from provincial exchequer, CEO of Knowledge Park withdrew Rs1.4 mln, CEO of Clean Water Company North withdrew Rs1.3 mln, CEO of Clean Water Company South withdrew Rs1.35 mln and CEO of Skill Development Company was hired at mammoth salary of Rs1.1 mln per month.

    Likewise, Punjab Urban Development’s CEO withdrew Rs6 lakhs, CEO of Punjab Investment and Trade Company withdrew Rs8 lakhs whereas CEO of Punjab Model Bazar withdrew as much as Rs6 lakhs.

    On the other hand, Supreme Court (SC) has taken suo motu notice on paying heft salaries and allowances to the the officials of public limited companies.

    Dunya News Investigation Wing had unearthed mammoth irregularities worth over Rs80 bn in financial matters of 56 companies formed by Punjab government.
    As per details garnered, Punjab govt had constituted 56 companies under guise of good governance and registered them under Article-42 of Companies Ordinance 1984. Punjab Chief Minister Shehbaz Sharif was inspired by the Turkish model and therefore summoned analysts from the same.

    While deliberately turning a blind eye towards similar local companies operating in Pakistan, Sharif-led Punjab govt awarded dozens of contracts to Turkish conglomerates on hefty paybacks.

    Before formation of these companies, 113970 employees were working in different departments across Punjab and the figure augmented to 157500 following arrival of Turkish corporations.

    https://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/43...Dunya-News-acquires-details-of-salaries-being
     
  24. Del
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    NAB steps up probe into Punjab Companies Scandal

    LAHORE: The National Accountability Bureau has stepped up the probe into the Punjab Companies Scandal as on Friday it summoned Ali Jan Khan, secretary, Primary and Secondary Healthcare, for questioning.

    The NAB Lahore is probing allegations of purchase of medicines at exorbitant rates through central contract in the Punjab Health Facilities Management Company.

    As per copy of the summon, available with The News, the bureau has directed Ali Jan Khan to appear before the combined investigation team by May 26 (today). The summon states that “the competent authority (NAB) has taken the cognizance of an offence committed by the management of the Punjab Health Facilities Management Company under the provisions of National Accountability Ordinance 1999. It states that the inquiry conducted so far has revealed that you (Ali Jan Khan) are in possession of information/ evidence which relates to the commission of said offence. So appear before the combine investigation team at 12 pm at the bureau’s office.

    It is pertinent to mention here that the NAB is probing the alleged embezzlement of billions of rupees in 56 companies of Punjab including Punjab Health Facilities Management Company. The Punjab government had constituted 56 companies under guise of good governance and had registered them under Article-42 of Companies Ordinance 1984.

    The apex court had taken a suo motu notice after the auditor general of Pakistan (AGP) had expressed his concern about the financial matters of nearly 51 public sector companies constituted by the Punjab PML-N government, suggesting stoppage of the practice of (quickly) giving them funds through SDAs (Special Drawing Allowance).

    The NAB chairman had initiated an inquiry in November 2017 after receiving multiple public complaints of alleged corruption, irregularities, waste of public resources, absence of transparency in tendering various projects and regular audits, favoritism in appointments and inordinate delay in completion of different projects. These companies had allegedly signed several contracts with private firms and that too in an ambiguous manner and by bypassing competition rules.

    Some of the prominent companies included Punjab Saaf Pani Company, Punjab Agriculture and Meat Company, Lahore Transport Company, Lahore Waste Management Company, Lahore Parking Company, Multan Cattle Market Management Company, Punjab Livestock and Dairy Development Board and Waste Management Companies in various cities.

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/321881-nab-steps-up-probe-into-punjab-companies-scandal
     
  25. godzilla
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    Nooni response:

    Imran khan caught picking his nose.
     
  26. Del
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    NAB recovers over Rs14 million, a luxury car hidden by Ahad Cheema

    LAHORE: National Accountability Bureau (NAB) has recovered Rs14.5 million, hidden by former Director General (DG) of Lahore Development Authority (LDA), Ahad Cheema, at a showroom of renowned car dealer in Lahore.

    The sources said the officials of NAB also seized a luxury car owned by Ahad Cheema from the same showroom located at Jail Road. The worth of the car is whopping Rs11 million.

    As per NAB, Ahad Cheema was arrested over the charges of misusing his authority and, with criminal intent, processing and awarding Ashiana-e-lqbal project contract worth Rs14 billion to Lahore CASA Developers, a joint venture, a firm which was ineligible for the same. The contract, in connivance with other accused persons, was awarded in violation of the Punjab Procurement Rules (PPR) 2014.

    Last week, an accountability court had sent former director general (DG) of Lahore Development Authority (LDA), Ahad Cheema, to jail on 15 days judicial remand in Ashiana Housing Scheme scam.

    Previously, the NAB had informed the court that the Punjab government had already developed Ashiana Housing Scheme. However, changes were made in the scheme just to sponsor Paragon City. Moreover, the LDA awarded the contract in violation of given rules and regulations.

    The project’s worth was Rs14 billion, but development work on ground is only worth of Rs15 million.

    The NAB inquiry further revealed that Bismillah Engineering Services Co (a major shareholder of JV titled Lahore CASA Developers) was a proxy firm working on behalf of Paragon City (Pvt) Ltd. Cheema allegedly received illegal gratification in the form of 32 kanals of land (valuing Rs30.09 million approximately from the owners of Paragon City (Pvt) Ltd.

    https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/3...14-million-a-luxury-car-hidden-by-ahad-cheema
     
  27. godzilla
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    more incompetence, corruption and self interest form the ruling party:

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/172197...-ali-jahangir-siddiquis-appointment-envoy-us/

    not only incompetent and corrupt, but bare faced liars too, on the issue that will affect most of the pakistani poor and middle classes:

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/1721349/1-pm-understates-debt-show-successes/

    "Due to growing indebtedness, over 30% of the budget is now consumed for debt servicing, leaving very little for social and economic development."

    astonishing how big the lies were.

    and that even from one of the most pro-sharif papers out there.
     
  28. Del
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    What I dislike the most about ruling party is their persistent lack of vision and absolute zero effort towards human development. Counties like India and Bangladesh are ahead in this aspect compared to Pakistan. There wouldn't be vital future growth without a much faster rate of development in educational, skill and literacy levels. Because skilled and highly educated manpower play critical role in success of any country, which are the weakest aspects of Pakistan, unfortunately. Spending budget on infrastructure is good, but there is no alternative of human development.
     
  29. iho
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    I agree that PML-N is deliberately making it difficult for the next government to resolve the economy
    Pakistan Population - 193 Million
    Bangladesh Population - 163 Million
    Pakistan Defense Budget - $8.78BLN
    Bangladesh Defense Budget - $3.2BLN
     
  30. Del
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    Seriously, is this your justification for lack of human development.

    I also wrote "India", why you skipped it?
     
  31. iho
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    India is much larger country with bigger economy. Pakistan Bangladesh are more apple to apple comparison. You cannot ignore our extensive defense spending while comparing why the money is not available to spend on human development in Pakistan vs Bangladesh.
     
  32. Del
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    Ok then enlighten me how much has been spent on human development?

    I understand big chunk goes towards defense, why its a separate debate, but I am interested to know the budget on human development by Gov?
     
  33. iho
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    Human development like education is the responsibility of the provinces. I don't know how much each province spends but they should definitely spend more on it then they currently do. There is no question or disagreement about it. However at the end of the day it boils down to the NFC award within the federal budget. Pakistan needs to find a way to give more to the provinces but not sure where that money is going to come from without improving the tax collections or reducing some of the fixed expenditures like defense and debt servicing.
     
  34. Del
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    First and foremost, everybody has to understand one thing. No matter how much one whine about defense budget, it wouldn't come down. So federal have to find other ways to get more than and give it to all the provinces - I agree with you. Tax collections is a massive issues, and it exist because of tax evasion, which just doesn't include civilians. I believe there are two reasons of it, 1) People are corrupt 2)People absence of trust towards the administration. People do not see their efforts being paid back. So, they don’t find a point of making efforts at all. There is a lack of transparency and accountability within the system that makes public question themselves whether their money is actually being used for their benefit or is gone into satisfying someone else’s vested interests. And due to #2, you cant blame people, because its true.

    Therefore, reforms in system, use of modernized ways to analyze data, ensured trust, accountability and transparency would be a good heads up towards the solution of the tax problem of Pakistan.

    That said, which Gov had tried any of this so far?
     
  35. iho
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    Musharraf govt tried but failed miserably. He even went against the small business in Karachi but they resisted and eventually he had to give up. Tax on agriculture is another area where efforts should be made but again there are vested interest among politicians, army officers and feudal lords who have their own investment in this field and are unwilling to give up their profits. Pakistanis are inherently corrupt and unfortunately Musharraf with all his honesty as a leader could not do a jack to improve Pakistan's tax collection.
     
  36. Del
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    Agree, there is no initiative other than Musharraf govt because its not in politicians and parliamentarians favor to do it. I am not certain how anything can put in place to rectify it. When people like sitting in parliamentarian are 'tax chor' then naturally people will make every effort not to pay it.
     
  37. godzilla
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    http://videos.92newshd.tv/videogall...-cm-punjab-rauf-klasara-30-may-2018-92newshd/

    another excellent muqabil tonight - they rightfully lambast the PTI for their ridiculous u-turn on the proposed CM for Punjab, but at least they have attempted to correct their idiotic mistake, however, look at the PMLN - unable to control their corruption, SS is closing down institutions on the last day of government - to destroy evidence essentially. The PPP did this as they ended their tenure too. how these guys get away with this is impossible to understand.

    in addition the last segment is on tobacco corruption, how lobbyists, politicians and business people are bought by US and UK tobacco companies and influence governent decisions, expressly in contradiction with the advice and recommendations of the health department. The head of the FBR's nephew works at pakistan tobacco.

    this is corruption.
     
  38. Del
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    Very interesting two shows based on PML-N projects and their performance in the last decade.





    Anchor also provided stats and comparison in between 5 years of PML-Q vs. 10 years of PML-N performance (22:45).

    He also shed light on PML-N good governance on education and its budget (13:15), healthcare and its budget, corruption in mega projects like Nandipur power project and corruption in railway. Also he mentioned there is no audit done on 56 companies Drama Sharif formed.

    In second video he elaborated how they have destroyed PIA, Steel mills and Wapda (in intro). Mufta ismail has confessed (14:40) that how brutally PML-N has failed to operate and control PIA.

    People say there is no mega corruption revealed in last 5 years. Listen to these videos, things will come to fore certainly.
     
  39. godzilla
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    todays disaster from these thieving crooks - the new nomination forms - they basically strip out tonnes of information that shows whether a candidate is crooked or not, and in the guise of simplification, these ********s have taken them all out. the last federal government decided not to answer any objections registered in the courts by the ECP, and now they are saying that any chance at this stage, now the decision has come out to reject the changes, will result in a delay in the polls. there is no danger of a change in the polls - there is no limits to their theivery and deceit.

    worse still, since this kind of behaviour might be expected of the PPP and PMLN, since they are both parties of criminals, but even three senior PTI members signed off on it, apparently without reading it. they really are doing everything in the power to lose a won election, and this would be unforgiveable if the alternatives were not so much worse.

    here's a short clip containing what theyve taken out of the nomination papers:

    http://videos.92newshd.tv/videogallery/which-changes-to-the-electoral-form-2-june-2018-92newshd/
     
  40. godzilla
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    godzilla Talented

    May 12, 2016
    2,701
    on a second programme im hearing that the PTI boycotted the sub committee.
     

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