Untouchability Issue in India

Discussion in 'The Pavilion' started by Aunty Virus, Aug 13, 2012.

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    Aunty Virus

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    Being discussed in mainstream media by one of the superstars. Not their billionaires, not their bogus shining propaganda, its this show where i feel India supposedly changing.

    Anyways, can a similar issue be discussed in mainstream media of Pakistan? Something like Ahmadi's being targetted?

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    Aunty Virus

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    This issue is prevalent in sub continent, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and even Srilanka in all sorts of different forms.
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    iZaman

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    Disco, the Ahmedi's is a difficult problem. I do not usually touch this topic in the forums but you seem like a better-progressive liberal mind. By liberal, I am generalizing a whole community of Pakistani's.

    You need to get indepth knowledge about thier pseudo-religion before you start making a judgement based on them.
    Do a bit more research as you may soon know about their beliefs.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya Just read the section of Specific beliefs properly and you may soon know the answer.


    One of the many hilarious refutes to Mirza Ghulam Qadiyani is that he died in the washroom. He considered himself as the 'Messiah' and a prophet. It is a well-known fact in Islamic history that Prophets are buried where they die.
    and Mirza Qadiyani died in a...washroom....
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    Passionate Pakistani

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    Ahmedis are very clever.. they use this victim cards very well.. and tbh i have no issues with them as long as they dont call themselves Muslims.
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    Invictus

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    Bahi loog so Ahmadi's are not people then ? I mean do we own Islam or does Allah owns Islam ? You think Allah needs our help ? He will deal with everyone as he sees fit. You go to your grave and others to their so I don't get this issue with Ahmadi's ?
    They believe what they believe. As long as they are not forcing you to believe their "Islam" then what does it matter ? Why can't we just let people be ? Allah didn't ask us to help him take care of his religion. He is more then capable of doing it on his own. You don't need to "defend" Islam online or on the streets against conspiracies or whatnot. Its protector is bigger and stronger then anything we can imagine.
    You think Allah will be happy with you because you hated one of its creation that didn't do any harm to you ? Is that what the prophet did to the people around him ? All day long in classes on TV by elders and by friends we hear about the prophet being forgiving and kind to his fellow beings and we turn around and use his religion and his teachings to hate and kill.
    Nobody is saying bring a Ahmadi home and feed them or bath them or something like that but let them be. Just let them go to their mosques and go to their jobs without fear and anxiety.
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    Aunty Virus

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    @iZaman but it is irrelevant where Mr. Mirza was born or died. If a child is born into a Ahmadi family in Pakistan or anywhere else and is mistreated because he was born into a Ahmadi family then that is wrong, by all accounts. There is no justification to that. Just as a muslim child is mistreated in some school of the west just because he is born into a muslim family, which is wrong. I only gave Ahmadi as an example, you can replace that with Shia in a sunni neighborhood and a sunni in a Shia neighborhood. Pathan in a urdu speaking neighborhood or a punjabi in balochistan.

    In our part of the world we take differences to the extreme level. We have 3 schooling system for three classes of pakistan. Madressah for the poor, matric system for teh middle class and o levels for the upper class. There you go we created difference right from the start.

    In the video, they raise some very valid points:

    # Inter-racial, inter-caste marriages is one of the solution. Someone is too proud of his blood line and looks down upon a blood line? Mix it.

    # Race, caste value in the society needs to be diminished.

    # Arrange marriage is a tool to keep race, caste, status intact.
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    Passionate Pakistani

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    imnt hating anyone but calling themselves Muslims is wrong when they are not muslims at all.. they dont believe on Last Prophet Muhamamad (SAW) and hence they are not muslims.

    They dont have any right to represent Islam.. thats it. other than that i dont care.
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    Invictus

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    @Passionate Pakistani

    Bahi who is representing Islam ? What does that even mean ? Such an arbitrary thing to say to someone, you don't represent such and such. Are Ahmadi's going into negotiations with the rest of the world on issues pertaining to muslims ? Who in your eyes represents us ?
    An Ahmadi, just like you, wants to go to work in the morning make some money come back home and provide for his family. He wants his kids to have a future and have a secure life. That is all. You, me, your neighbor, that Ahmadi guy, Zardari, Ex-President Bush, Obama and everyone else on this planet represent themselves, nothing else nothing more. No Ahmadi is currently in talks with the US, on your behalf, giving away your rights and\or freedom. An Ahmadi doesn't even have the right to openly claim he is an Ahmadi in Pakistan let alone represent anyone.
    I still don't get the problem. If they call themselves muslims how does it hurt you or the religion ? You don't think they are muslims they think they are, good for the both of you. How does that change or effect anything around us ?
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    Passionate Pakistani

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    @Invictus

    as i said before, i dont have any problem with anything else..and indeed they should be given equal opportunities at jobs,school etc and in all field of life..but using name of islam.. no way

    i dont consider them as muslims as they dont accept the basic concept of Islam.. The end.
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    Invictus

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    Sir jee thats great. You are free to have opinions. But you need to have balance too right. They are not muslims to you fine but thinking along such lines is juts not good for anyone:

    Ahmedis are very clever.. they use this victim cards very well.. and tbh i have no issues with them as long as they dont call themselves Muslims.

    Issue is that once you start thinking along those lines(bolded) you justify wrongs against "them". Because you have drawn a line you have made it into "them". At the end of the day bud there is no "them" its all "us". Any time we justify wrongs committed to anyone in our mind we make the powers to be that much stronger to do the same to us one day. That's how humans work. We keep on dividing ourselves into smaller and smaller groups and make it easy for the powers to be to control us.
    Think about it, wasn't it the same reason "they are not muslims" used to first banish Dr.Abdus Salam from Pakistan and then to change the kutba on his grave ? We allowed it to happen because we thought of them as they. You think a brilliant Ahmadi kid would now want to stay and work for Pakistan after what we did to Abdus Salam ? So who looses in the end ? Us all of us. Because the army generals and politicians with money don't live in Pakistan. They don't care for a brilliant scientist lives in Pakistan or not. They don't care if the same scientist makes the life of an average Pakistani better or not. But you should care.
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    Aunty Virus

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    Well we all have our opinions but doing that on a state level is not a good idea. That is what we are doing to ahmadi's currently. State not accepting Ahmadi as muslims because they dont believe in basic concept of Islam is similar to India or America not accepting Muslims to be indian or americans because Muslims belief is they are muslims first and state wants them to believe that they are indians/americans first.

    I am not saying its right or wrong, i am saying that it is not a good idea to do that on a state level.

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